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Team Fortress 2: Poll Results

By Shamus
on Monday Jun 1, 2009
Filed under:
Video Games


I was planning on letting the poll run for a few days, but there doesn’t seem to be any point in doing so. While the votes continue to roll in, the overall results haven’t changed in over 24 hours. There is an unmistakable trend here:

(not pictured)de_dust had a score of over +1 million, and it wasnt even on the poll.

Assuming that playing a map you hate is worse than not playing a map you love, I scored it so that each positive vote is worth +1 and each negative vote against a map is worth -1.5. I wanted seven maps, but it looks like there are only six that have an overall favorable rating. (And granary is pretty borderline.) It’s amazing how little the overall shape of this chart changed as the day wore on and more people voted.

Note that while 2fort had the lowest overall score, it was actually #4 in the “love” list. Granary is another controversial map, and the ratio of fans-to-haters remained very close to 3:2, which kept its score near zero. If we ignore the hate votes, then the top scorers are:

1) cp_gravelpit
2) cp_dustbowl
3) cp_badlands
4) ctf_2fort
5) cp_granary
6) cp_steel
7) cp_well

Yesterday I was trying to get on the server, but having no luck. It was at maximum capacity all day. After waiting in line for half an hour, I did the only reasonable thing I could: I used the remote console to boot someone signed up for a second server. There are now two servers: Twenty Sided: Lawful, and the new one: Twenty Sided: Chaotic.

I think Lawful should remain pure, vanilla, and with the broadest possible appeal. I’ll keep the payload maps (I might remove HooDoo, as someone reported it’s heavier than the other maps on slower computers) and use the five maps with large positive scores.

Chaotic can be our server for community maps and controversial stuff like 2fort. I don’t want to go crazy with the community maps, but one or two popular ones (I’m still liking the look and sound of payload “Swift”) would be nice.

Lawful is the priority. If the end of the month rolls around and there is enough money, I’ll renew both. If not, I’ll just renew Lawful and make up the difference myself. So, if you donate, keep in mind this priority. Hopefully the two servers will give us enough room so that we’re not all stuck waiting. Also keep in mind these things are only $30 a month each. You can see the balance here. It’s backwards, though, so negative values are better. Again, no pressure. I don’t want to do the public television thing and make you feel guilty if you don’t pony up. The thing is there to be played. Log on and do your part for the team.

Also, I have a few people in mind to be mods. I’ll be emailing those folks over the next couple of days.

Comments (68)

1 2

  1. Jericho says:

    Nice! I suggest removing all speak from lawful, keeping it on Chaotic, personally. Just because all speak, while great for community, hurts real teamplay at the same time.

    And when I get my Internets hooked up Wednesday, I will be checking them both out!

  2. SatansBestBuddy says:

    What’s wrong with Hydro?

    It’s one of my favourites, but I haven’t played it in months cause all my favourite servers kicked it out of their rotation.

    Oh, and good going with the community maps server, there’s a lot of really good maps out there, you could set up a hundred map rotation and have every single one of them be worthwhile and fun.

    EDIT: maybe, just maybe, there’s a magic plugin out there that can let you bind all talk to one key and teamspeak to another.

    … I can dream…

  3. kaleeshwarrior says:

    I just got done on Chaotic. Lawful was full and Chaotic was empty so I logged in waiting for people and learned the maps while I was in there. I now have a few ambush points in mind for Badlands and Hoodoo. Ended up nearly filling the server once other people started jumping online. Very fun. Thanks a ton for the servers, Shamus.

  4. Jazmeister says:

    I don’t know why nobody likes Hydro. I love it. I could play on that all day. Someday I’ll have a 24/7 Hydro server, and the clan tag will be -`~{[hydro]}~`- or some crap, and we can all enjoy the sublime permutations in blissful harmony and shooty death.

  5. Yar Kramer says:

    I’d just like to point out something about pl_swift (which I was testing out with sv_lan 1 just now) — the bomb explodes the instant the payload reaches the final terminus, killing everyone who was near it (thus making it effectively a suicide-bombing, whoops), where Valve’s maps tend to give you a few seconds to get away. Just mentioning.

  6. Played HooDoo on Chaotic earlier, quite a nice map as I’ve only played it once before (on Lawful) and then only for a couple of minutes.

    I’ll probably drop a donation in to cover a month or two for the servers.

  7. Wolverine says:

    Argh, curse you, exams! I tried TF2 once and did not really like it, but now you got me to want to play.

  8. Shadow2336 says:

    Sweet, two servers.

    Maybe now when I want to get online, I can actually get into the server.

    But keep alltalk on both, I’d rather have fun, than win (but both together is really good)

  9. Pickly says:

    Nice! I suggest removing all speak from lawful, keeping it on Chaotic, personally. Just because all speak, while great for community, hurts real teamplay at the same time.

    Agree with this as well. It’s harder to play the game when people can’t really cordinate with voice (and a well coordinated, or at least better coordinated, game tends to be more fun than a more randomly organized group.)

  10. Lupis42 says:

    I’d vote for keeping alltalk on Lawful, as alltalk (and by extension, less co-ordinated teams) is more friendly to newbies. (Or those of us with no mikes).

  11. Sauron says:

    Dear god, keep alltalk on. One of the great things about the Twenty Sided server is that it cares more about community than letting the experienced players play their usual game. It’s part of why it’s such a friendly server, and the only one I’ve ever spent more than one round on.

  12. Carra says:

    I have learned to enjoy the “autojoin” function. If only all games had that.

  13. Gahazakul says:

    Cool beans my man. Glad you put up that donate link again, I got paid today and had forgot I was going to give. Enjoy my monies!

  14. I’d agree with keeping alltalk on, it makes it a much friendlier place to play a good game with some friends.

  15. bbot says:

    Reading these comments has inspired an ugly revelation.

    I am That Guy.

    I’ve got a top of the line computer. I read the enthusiast press. I’ve clocked 99 hours as an Engineer alone.

    But I thought I had it under control, that I was just a regular gamer, until I left the familiar confines of my usual servers, (thanks in part to a new computer and a consequently virgin Steam install) and played a couple of matches on the d20 server.

    There I found people who just sucked, were absolutely terrible at the game, who didn’t know where to go on cp_steel, who couldn’t figure out how to play Spy, who didn’t have microphones.

    Well, of course they suck, bbot. They haven’t played the game for the last two years, like certain losers I could name.

  16. Adeon says:

    On the plus side you seem to do a good job of not expressing your anger/frustration in game.

  17. Volatar says:

    I also agree on keeping alltalk. We still have text chat for team coordination. Though from my experience, once the team starts using their own chat for strategy, they stop using voice altogether. Its sad that RAWR WIN WIN WIN takes precedence over friendly fun, but it happens.

    Keep the focus pointed towards friendly fun, keep alltalk on. Some will dislike it, but it is better, oh so much better, for the community.

  18. bbot says:


    Simple network effect. Doubling the number of peers more than doubles the utility of the network.

  19. OddlucK says:

    I’m for keeping All Talk on. As has been pointed out, it makes for friendlier inter-team gaming. I can congratulate a sniper on a particularly well-timed headshot, or express frustrated awe at a spy’s expert stealth. It also leads to fun running gags (well, fun for me, at least) like trying to convince Rutskarn he needs to turn around because there’s a spy behind him, even though he’s against a wall and knows I’m on the other team.

    Oh, yeah. That reminds me…


  20. Khizan says:

    The problem is that alltalk makes CTF maps suck, because it’s hard to coordinate an attack with your spy inside when your choices are to stop running and type out your plan or to tell the entire opposing team things like “Ok, we’re right outside, sap their sentries now”.

  21. BarGamer says:

    I laughed when you went the “Lawful” route, and chose to get another server instead of using your remote console to boot someone. At the same time, another server is AWESOME! Three cheers to Shamus!

  22. Adalore says:

    The magical team chat, start using operation names.
    “Sanvich steal is a go!” and junk. :D

  23. Pocket Nerd says:

    Thank you very much, Shamus. (Money’s extremely tight for me right now, but I plan to donate as soon as that improves.)

  24. TehShrike says:

    I can put a PC onto a fiber line… if anyone was interested in a one-time cost for a decent motherboard/processor (I don’t see any reason to spend more than a couple hundred dollars), I could set us up a server pretty easily. I don’t know how many TF2 games a decent dual-core PC could handle, but I’m guessing it’s more than one.

  25. Rutskarn says:

    Oddluck: WHAT?! WHERE?!

    Also, Shamus, I’m sure you’ve seen this, but this…well, this is extremely relevant.


  26. Kdansky says:

    Haha, two servers. Thanks for the service, I’ll be chipping in when I get my next (technically first) paycheck ;)
    Playing on them is a lot of fun, as the community is great. Technically, this solution would be nice: If anyone leaves from the server and there are still 20+ people on it, nobody except “select few” can join anymore, up to 24. Select few means “community people”. Since outsiders would not know about it, we would not have trouble, people could still join and we would have some advantage over them, while not outright booting them. I am not sure if the server software supports something this sophisticated though.

    Last but not least: I wanna be a mod! :P

  27. The S Ninja says:

    My PC sucks too much to play Team Fortress with you guys. Oh well, I’ll just take your word for it that it’s fun.

  28. Rutskarn says:

    …okay, that was a server most plagued of riffraff.

    Methinks password-protecting the “extra” server, as you suggested earlier, is a good idea.

    My consolation was that, while the good gentleman FYI I Am Amir did ply us most tiresomely with his assertions that we were “noobs” to be “raped”, he and his colleagues proved most flammable indeed, despite my utilizing The Backburner–a tool he had so quaintly and cleverly dubbed, “Fail”.

  29. Kdansky says:

    The new server is losing its virginity right now. 2on2 is kinda fun.

  30. Volatar says:

    We just need mods, that will solve the idiots.

    • Shamus says:

      Yes. I didn’t feel a lot of pressure to recruit mods on the original server because things were so tame, but the crew that was playing just now was a mess. I probably could ban half of them.

      And speaking of bad docs, the directions for administrating a server are A MESS. The directions are vague, leave out crucial information, assume you already know things, and generally are a waste of time. There are many, many pages with this sort of info, and most of them are copy/paste of each other. Boo.

  31. Pickly says:

    Personally, I’d suggest going ahead and banning people quickly if problems come up, rather than waiting around a bunch of times to do it and letting the server quality drop for a longer time. (It seems pretty simple to figure out who will cause problems.)

    Or just set up the passwords stuff/mod stuff pretty quickly.

    Also, for people supporting alltalk: “Fun” and “winning” do not oppose each other. When playing friendly PvP matchups in RPG’s, separate communication for each team provide both “social” fun and gameplay fun, while alltalk only provides the social fun. Please do not assume that “playing to win” and “social, friendly atmosphere” work against each other, they don’t do so unless people come in who do not understand the point of the server.

  32. errolian says:

    Anyone still playing on the Left4Dead server? I only recently got the game, and have been doing 1 campaign a day in single player to get to know them, but will then be looking for some help/tuition/fun in multiplayer.

    Oh, and November = Left 4 Dead 2 :)

  33. CrushU says:

    Blah. CP_granary is annoying solely for the fact it’s really a 3CP map. That last CP is ALWAYS scout-rushed and over before anyone even realizes it’s unlocked. Hate that.

    CP_steel is confusing as someone said earlier, I *am* getting the hang of it finally, though.

    And CP_Egypt is AWESOME, why is it hated so much? :( :(

    The CTF-haters are all turtles. :P

  34. Randy Johnson says:

    I have really been enjoying your servers, Shamus. TF2 is alot easier to get large groups of friends together and play than L4D, although L4D was still awesome.

  35. Chakan says:

    @CrushU, I don’t really like CTF because on larger teams it gets bogged down very easily. with 12 people on a team it’s nearly impossible to get anything done without a serious coordinated effort on 2fort. I realise that it’s TEAM Fortress 2, but still, on servers that purport to be more about fun than winning, it’s difficult to justify super serious playing, as it tends to detract from everyone else, the engys that are forced to stay behind to protect the intel, the spies that just get unlucky, and the dueling snipers. It all adds up to a more serious, less learning based environment, which can be fine, just not something I look for in a pub game.
    @Shamus, I need your help to convince “Brodinger” that the campaign is worth taking some time out of TF2 to read, if you see him, yell at him or soemthing.

  36. BaCoN says:

    Bbot, I hrt your face. You’re my favourite spy to wrench in the face/hand my ass to me on the edge of your knife.

    As for the need for mods? I dunno. It’s important to have good mid coverage, imo. Amir was annoying the one time I played with him, but after I told him not to be an asshole to a newer player, he stopped talking as much as he was. But there’s always SOMEBODY. I’m just surprised i’m not the annoying, obnoxious one.

  37. Derek K. says:

    Khizan: I like to bind a couple keys to team speak “Sapping Sentry in 5” and “I’m in position, go when ready.” for spy.

  38. Adalore says:

    Maybe there is a method to set up a group of regulars as watch dogs, that can give a single demerit to a troll, once that reaches 5 they get booted, once it reaches 10, they are banned.

    One demerit a hour per player, and any number of demerits on one person goes down one a hour, so one person can’t just boot them off by them selves, and it fades after a while.

    And two guys take… 4hours to boot some one, maybe the regulars will out number the trash.

  39. Gresman says:

    Thanks Shamus for the new server! I always have to wait till I can get on the server. It is really fun there. I was never really into such games but yeah now I come over once or twice if I feel like it. Yes please keep all talk on the new server too. I had yesterday such a funny moment with all talk. :)

  40. Fizban says:

    Only somewhat off topic, but I can’t seem to find the server (either of them) in the search box, and since my “`” button doesn’t actually bring up consoles I can’t try it that way. Any suggestions?

    Edit: naturally I find a way right after I post (favorite’d it directly). I’m guessing the response problem is on my side cause plenty of people are playing without problem at the moment.

  41. BaCoN says:

    Fizban: I don’t think I’ve EVER searched for the server or connected through console. I always just add the new servers to my Steam favourites.

    Adalore: That’s a really interesting idea, but I’m not sure it’d be easy to set up, and there’s a lot of side questions; What qualifies as ‘regular’? What justifies a demerit? How long should the boots and bans last?

  42. Dr. Strangelove says:

    Mods would be appreciated. We had a guy speedhacking on Lawful, but fortunately he got bored of me killing him with stickies after a few maps. Everyone else on the server was the very model of a modern awesome person.

  43. The problem with passwording the server is at any one time (at least inside regular UK hours) there are only 4-8 d20ers on – perhaps due to the fact the server is full – but it’s worth keeping in mind.

    Fizban: Go to the Favourites tab, and click the “Add server to favourites” or “Find games at this address”, then enter the IP.

  44. Mephane says:

    Does this mean more CP-Scout-Rushing games and less CTF? Damn, TF2 was the first game ever where I found CTF actually fun – extremely fun to be precise.

    It’s actually kind of weird. For example, people like the map ‘well’, but only CP, not CTF? I remember a lot of great rounds of ctf_well and people enjoyed it extremely, how come it’s now being hated so much?

    It’s quite sad, but with this new map rotation the Twenty-Sided server looks like alternating between payload and capture-point. I don’t see any capture-the-flag maps which would end in the rotation. That sounds boring, especially since I am starting to loathe the capture-point game mode in general – too many Scout rushes, too little support for defenders (i.e., no one cares about that Engineer building a really well-placed turret for defense, so he’ll have to deal with the Spy himself by respawning and rebuilding… again). It’s just no fun when like 2 minutes after the start you’ve lost without even engaging more than 2 enemies. Or seeing you’ve won without any chance at helping your team win, the speaker just magically decides to say “victory”.

    No other game mode produces this odd situation – the feeling of not being able to influence the outcome of the battle, victory or defeat while you have just only reached the middle point once, got killed and are running back to battle – *poof*, “you failed”, *wow* “victory”.

    And the funny thing – cp_egypt scored as one of the worst, although this is the capture-point map which reduces the Scout-rushing factor because there are only 2 points to attack/defend so you can fight more fiercely for these 2 points instead of skipping some points because those 4 Scouts already took them. The dumbest thing I’ve seen so far was cp_granary and 7 or 8 Scouts at once running and jumping around trying to hit anything at the start of the map – it’s just stupid, pointless (whoever brings more Scouts or luck wins). That made me exit the game.

    If these poll results are what is going to run on ‘our’ server, I’ll have to find a new one. I couldn’t really enjoy the game when every other map is capture-point (I’d rather call it capture-pointless, heh).

    P.S.: cp_granary is in general the worst map I’ve seen so far. You can’t make a difference. If you bring a ubered heavy, it’s totally possible for the enemy team to simply avoid it for 10 seconds, only in specific situations this can really alter the outcome of the battle – I think that’s why usually people don’t even care about medic+heavy/pyro combos and simply go around as Scouts, Spys, Snipers and lone Pyros. While on other maps I can at least make out what’s going on, decide which class to bring to the field, I am regularly lost on cp_granary. There is no real battle, just skirmished all over the place, and it’s more a matter of luck what you are facing and thus whether you’ll die or the enemy in front of you, depending on whether you are their counter-class or they are yours. Maybe that’s also why so many people pick the Scout there – at least you can run away.

  45. Kdansky says:

    I do have something else I would like to propose: Less than 30 minutes per CP/CTF map. We played 9 (NINE!) rounds of granary yesterday. That’s just boring as hell, especially since granary is not a very interesting map. See above, I fully agree.

  46. John says:

    Oh, please put granary in. It is a really well made map that I’m sure players will grow to love. Mephane’s comments confuse me… granary is very straightforward, and the battles are usually quite large. I’m not sure how he’s saying small skirmishes occur. There are some clearly defined places where larger battles usually take place – on this server and on others. :(?

    By the way, pl_swift is still a work in progress. It has a ton of balance issues still, and there tends to be two new version of it a week. I’d wait until a final version is released so that players don’t have to redownload it so many times.

  47. Mephane says:


    Maybe I just suck at this game, but on granary I spent most of my time a) respawning and running back to the front and b) being killed somewhere on the way. It’s typical of all capture-point maps (except cp_egypt, as it has only two points) that you can very quickly end up apart from the rest of your team and spending most of your time only struggling to get to them. Maybe I just suck and that’s why I see it that way. But one thing less fun than the respawn timer is being ambushed again and again on the way from the spawn base to the rest of my team.

    And cp_granary seems to enlarge the gap between experienced players (talking about FPS and aiming and dodging in general). I can’t count the times a lone enemy Scout could two-shot me with the shotgun halfway to the front. I cannot do that, I can’t defend against that, since I just don’t have this kind of aim and reflexes. And this map specifically allows them to do these kind of things. Which is ok, in theory. But it’s not actually noob-friendly. ;)

  48. John says:

    Alright, I can totally understand that. Which class do you play the most?

  49. Submarine Bells says:

    Shamus, I’d like to add my voice to the chorus of thanks that folk are offering for setting up these servers. I’ve spent a good many hours on your servers over the last week or so, and have enjoyed myself more (and more consistently) on them than in any TF2 I’ve played up until now. In other places my inclination is to just shut my mouth and play silently rather than risking yet another round of uninformed commentary from the young and spotty. This is the first server I’ve found where I’ve felt safe enough that I can just “let it all hang out”, relax and just be myself while playing. I’ve been getting downright chatty on voice during games, and that’s a new thing for me with TF2. Thanks a heap, Shamus! I can’t donate right now due to brokitude, but I certainly intend to when I have some spare cash kicking around. Your servers rock, the players who play on them rock, and so do you!

  50. Mephane says:

    @John: Pyro is my most-played class. But don’t get me wrong, I do play the other classes, too, depending on the situation, what I’d like to do etc. ;)

  51. Pickly says:

    After playing granary some more, I have to agree with the “Don’t like it” opinion above. (the other control point maps seem to have been better.)

    Also, to repeat this point, focus on winning /= not having fun. There are people who making it that way, but with a more friendly group, individual team chat provides both social chatter and a lot more team strategy and coordination than is possible in allchat. A lot of more socially oriented players seem to have this misconception, and reduce the gameplay fun more than is necessary to ensure social fun. (One of the most aggravating things for me in the past has been groups where someone says “we didn’t win, but at least we had fun”, which is quite aggravating as playing well is fun in itself, and a comment like that often feels as if more social players aren’t really concerned with whether people actually had fun or not.)

    • Shamus says:

      I consider “alltalk” to be one of the key defining attributes of the server. I really think that since you CAN’T use voice for forming strategy, it forces it to be a social channel. Since the social aspect is crucial and strategy is a distant second, I think this is an important tradeoff.

      It’s also a repellent to the competitive set, thus encouraging people who are serious about winning the game to look elsewhere. It’s not that those folk are “wrong”, it’s just that they’re not going to enjoy a game full of newbies and banter.

  52. Chakan says:

    CP maps are an interesting situation, when they’re good, they’re fantastic, and everyone on both teams has a good time; when they’re bad, you’ve probably got unbalanced teams, and it shows in mirrored maps like badlands, where one team can cap the mid point, then kill the stream of enemies as they come, never really comming across any real resistance as they steamroll. Newbies are generally terrible at CP maps, because they rush in to battle, and don’t worry about defending their own points, combine that with one or two skilled engys on the offensive side, and the game’s over before it starts.

    I love badlands, some of the craziest games I’ve played have been there, but it’s a serious problem because new people just rush in, die, and respawn just in time to lose, which means they don’t learn the biggest rule of CP maps, stick together. It’s hard to avoid them, and some, like steel are fun even if you don’t know what you’re doing, but it might be best to put them on the backburner (ho ho!) for the time being, until the server shifts to a more “regulars”; which, from what I understand will never happen.

  53. CrushU says:

    I agree with the hating on Granary. :P

    Well doesn’t seem to have the scout-rush problem Granary does. Dustbowl and Egypt are both the most awesome CP maps, I don’t know why there’s so much Egypt-hate…

    And yes, CTF is hard to win unless you perform as a team. That’s sortof the point?

  54. zomglazerz says:

    Thanks for setting this up Shamus. I’m glad I started lurking here a little over a year ago, this server alone makes it worth it!

    I think one of the barriers for entry into games like this for introverts (such as myself) is the fear of being a noob. Giving new players an environment to learn without being harshly criticized or called out individually on mistakes creates friendlier players in the long run than the trial by trolling learning method. I look forward to many more games of burning people in the face, healing them in the face, and creating guns to shoot them in the face.

    All that being said: donation made! Here’s to many more months of TF2 for grown-ups.

  55. Pickly says:

    I consider “alltalk” to be one of the key defining attributes of the server. I really think that since you CAN'T use voice for forming strategy, it forces it to be a social channel. Since the social aspect is crucial and strategy is a distant second, I think this is an important tradeoff.,/i>

    And you are making the same mistake that most social oriented player make, which as mentioned above is to assume that competition= no social fun, which actually doesn’t happen with a good group. It’s sacrificing a lot of gameplay fun for perhaps a small bit of extra social fun, and is overall a poor tradeoff.

    It's also a repellent to the competitive set, thus encouraging people who are serious about winning the game to look elsewhere. It's not that those folk are “wrong”, it's just that they're not going to enjoy a game full of newbies and banter.

    I can see this argument here, although there should be other methods to deal with people who reduce the fun by being over competetive.

  56. vdgmprgrmr says:

    Hey Shamus, do you think you can also let the chaotic server have all the things like melee-only and such? I know many people who really don’t like not playing the actual game, including myself.

  57. Winter says:

    Actually, Shamus, as one of those hardcore play-to-win-all-the-time people i rather prefer the 20 sided server to random public servers. I don’t use voice chat anyway, though. Contrary to the general opinion on here, i wouldn’t describe most public servers as very serious. They shout a lot about winning, but in terms of actually playing to win they really don’t. In fact, the 20 sided servers is pretty much as good as or better than a random server on the “playing seriously” front. In my experience.

    (Also: Cashworks and Frontier plz :P)

    So i’m guessing that’s where the people who want all chat turned off are coming from :)

  58. John says:

    One of my friends made Frontier. It’s a really good map, but due to its nature, it’s simply not going to work on slower computers. He’s optimized it best he can, but it simply requires a faster machine. If Hoodoo is going to be left out due to this problem, Frontier probably should be, too.

  59. Winter says:

    Personally, i always had more trouble with Hoodoo than Frontier. (Wide open spaces like Hoodoo and the first area of Cashworks give my computer problems.)

    Then again, my computer is pretty good at any map so my views on the matter probably don’t count…

  60. crapgame says:

    I started playing with the recent influx of noobs in the public trial. These servers are one of the primary reasons I stuck around and bought the game. Thanks Shamus. More payload.

  61. Pickly says:

    I’m not annoyed that the server has allchat, if that’s how people decide, I am annoyed that the decision to use allchat is being made based on a misconception.

    So i'm guessing that's where the people who want all chat turned off are coming from

    The other element is how much of a “rear end” hole other people are being in game, there are a lot of people who play to win who are friendly about it, and will seek out servers.

    (With me, mostly, it’s about trying out a new game, and with that comes learning some of the group strategies and such that go along with that.)

  62. Stonebear says:

    Just wanted to add mah thanks to the list. I’ve been itching to play TF2 since it came out, but till now I’ve refused to buy anything Steam. You finally got me to rethink mah rule, and I got to admit its a lot of fun.

  63. Mephane says:

    there are a lot of people who play to win who are friendly about it, and will seek out servers.

    Possibly, but with allchat you can at least drive away the really competitive players who play to win and for nothing else. ;)

  64. Anonymoose says:

    I have to agree with some others, I have a general dislike for CP maps. Some of good but others seem to breed lop-sided fights. I usually place pretty well on the scoreboard but I don’t have the twitch reflexes I used to. My play style is more geared towards support. Once things go sour on a CP map, you tend to get steam-rolled. This is because the enemies spawn closer and the last capture point usually has a very, very, VERY short cap time.

    It’s pretty annoying to feel like you can’t do anything.

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